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	<title>Comments on: Comparison of Directory / LDAP Servers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thoughtblender.info/2008/11/04/comparison-of-directory-ldap-servers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thoughtblender.info/2008/11/04/comparison-of-directory-ldap-servers/</link>
	<description>A CSConnell weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:10:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Hans</title>
		<link>http://thoughtblender.info/2008/11/04/comparison-of-directory-ldap-servers/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://csconnell.wordpress.com/?p=33#comment-65</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I came across the site since i am trying to collect information about alternatives to OpenLDAP. It is now the second time that i had a bad experience with the latter one. Basically your test sounds all right to me since it shows: OpenLDAP is poorely configured by default. It actually takes a lot of time to get what you want. Reading documentation, following up on problems in case of an error are common tasks then. The points are: getting a secured connection, populating a scheme, or configure the authentication. Btw, i made my experience at Debian/Lenny using the default packages.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came across the site since i am trying to collect information about alternatives to OpenLDAP. It is now the second time that i had a bad experience with the latter one. Basically your test sounds all right to me since it shows: OpenLDAP is poorely configured by default. It actually takes a lot of time to get what you want. Reading documentation, following up on problems in case of an error are common tasks then. The points are: getting a secured connection, populating a scheme, or configure the authentication. Btw, i made my experience at Debian/Lenny using the default packages.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://thoughtblender.info/2008/11/04/comparison-of-directory-ldap-servers/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://csconnell.wordpress.com/?p=33#comment-58</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the review. It has at least given me something to think about wrt new infrastructure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the review. It has at least given me something to think about wrt new infrastructure.</p>
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		<title>By: Comparison of LDAP / Directory Servers - Update &#171; The Thought Blender</title>
		<link>http://thoughtblender.info/2008/11/04/comparison-of-directory-ldap-servers/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Comparison of LDAP / Directory Servers - Update &#171; The Thought Blender]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://csconnell.wordpress.com/?p=33#comment-15</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of LDAP / Directory Servers -&#160;Update Almost two months ago I wrote a post about some directory servers I was testing, mostly I wrote about some early testing that I had done [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of LDAP / Directory Servers -&nbsp;Update Almost two months ago I wrote a post about some directory servers I was testing, mostly I wrote about some early testing that I had done [...]</p>
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		<title>By: csconnell</title>
		<link>http://thoughtblender.info/2008/11/04/comparison-of-directory-ldap-servers/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[csconnell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 13:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://csconnell.wordpress.com/?p=33#comment-11</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your comments Gavin! - I&#039;ll check out your links]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments Gavin! &#8211; I&#8217;ll check out your links</p>
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		<title>By: csconnell</title>
		<link>http://thoughtblender.info/2008/11/04/comparison-of-directory-ldap-servers/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[csconnell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 13:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://csconnell.wordpress.com/?p=33#comment-10</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Correct, OpenDS doesn&#039;t come bundled, but there isn&#039;t any different between installing a package in Linux (such as OpenLDAP) and setting up the tree and then running setup with OpenDS and setting up the tree .  Making sure you have all the packages, configuring everything, and then making it is a different experience (it is easy enough to do, but the comparison was with pre-packaged software).

I have been very clear that past setting up the tree, I have not done much to configure either OpenLDAP or OpenDS and that the test are based on an &quot;out-of-the-box&quot; install.  I have no doubt that they would both perform better if I spent time tuning them, which I will.  This is just the first set of testing.  

One thing won&#039;t change with testing though, and that is the ease of use of OpenDS vs OpenLDAP - you guys (OpenLDAP) I believe are more focused on high performance and use by folks who tend to use CLI tools and who have deep experience with LDAP, while I think OpenDS (and ApacheDS too) apply some of their focus on a different kind of user experience that can extend LDAP into the hands of new folks.  Honestly, my opinion is that those tools do have a better user experience and are less intimidating to folks than OpenLDAP.

I do appreciate your comments and your offer to work with me on this and will contact you via e-mail.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correct, OpenDS doesn&#8217;t come bundled, but there isn&#8217;t any different between installing a package in Linux (such as OpenLDAP) and setting up the tree and then running setup with OpenDS and setting up the tree .  Making sure you have all the packages, configuring everything, and then making it is a different experience (it is easy enough to do, but the comparison was with pre-packaged software).</p>
<p>I have been very clear that past setting up the tree, I have not done much to configure either OpenLDAP or OpenDS and that the test are based on an &#8220;out-of-the-box&#8221; install.  I have no doubt that they would both perform better if I spent time tuning them, which I will.  This is just the first set of testing.  </p>
<p>One thing won&#8217;t change with testing though, and that is the ease of use of OpenDS vs OpenLDAP &#8211; you guys (OpenLDAP) I believe are more focused on high performance and use by folks who tend to use CLI tools and who have deep experience with LDAP, while I think OpenDS (and ApacheDS too) apply some of their focus on a different kind of user experience that can extend LDAP into the hands of new folks.  Honestly, my opinion is that those tools do have a better user experience and are less intimidating to folks than OpenLDAP.</p>
<p>I do appreciate your comments and your offer to work with me on this and will contact you via e-mail.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Henry</title>
		<link>http://thoughtblender.info/2008/11/04/comparison-of-directory-ldap-servers/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gavin Henry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 10:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://csconnell.wordpress.com/?p=33#comment-9</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you want to download a prepacked version of OpenLDAP, not an OS bundled one, like you did for OpenDS, try:

http://blog.zrmt.com/2007/10/18/rhel5-openldap/

or http://www.symas.net/portal/index.fcgi]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to download a prepacked version of OpenLDAP, not an OS bundled one, like you did for OpenDS, try:</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.zrmt.com/2007/10/18/rhel5-openldap/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.zrmt.com/2007/10/18/rhel5-openldap/</a></p>
<p>or <a href="http://www.symas.net/portal/index.fcgi" rel="nofollow">http://www.symas.net/portal/index.fcgi</a></p>
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		<title>By: Howard Chu</title>
		<link>http://thoughtblender.info/2008/11/04/comparison-of-directory-ldap-servers/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Howard Chu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 20:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://csconnell.wordpress.com/?p=33#comment-8</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[re: old vs new - OpenDS doesn&#039;t come bundled with CentOS. If you&#039;re going to have to install a 3rd party package to get it onto the machine, then it would be fair to install a 3rd party OpenLDAP build on the machine too.

In the meantime, it&#039;s well documented that you must tune various settings first. The default BerkeleyDB cache is only 256KB. The default data layout stores everything in one place but you really need to keep transaction logs on a separate spindle from the database files, etc. All of this is spelled out in the Admin Guide.

http://www.openldap.org/doc/admin24/tuning.html

I&#039;m not telling you how I &quot;think it should work&quot; - I&#039;m telling you how it *does* work, when you follow the documentation. That&#039;s not theoretical, that&#039;s actual.

There&#039;s other factors that may come into play, not all of which are directly under our control. E.g., the default malloc implementation in glibc was extremely bad up until very recently.

http://highlandsun.com/hyc/malloc/

(To be honest, I haven&#039;t benchmarked a current glibc yet to see if it&#039;s really fixed. I&#039;ve pretty much switched to tcmalloc for all my critical installations and haven&#039;t looked back.)

You can email me if you want to investigate this further.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: old vs new &#8211; OpenDS doesn&#8217;t come bundled with CentOS. If you&#8217;re going to have to install a 3rd party package to get it onto the machine, then it would be fair to install a 3rd party OpenLDAP build on the machine too.</p>
<p>In the meantime, it&#8217;s well documented that you must tune various settings first. The default BerkeleyDB cache is only 256KB. The default data layout stores everything in one place but you really need to keep transaction logs on a separate spindle from the database files, etc. All of this is spelled out in the Admin Guide.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.openldap.org/doc/admin24/tuning.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.openldap.org/doc/admin24/tuning.html</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not telling you how I &#8220;think it should work&#8221; &#8211; I&#8217;m telling you how it *does* work, when you follow the documentation. That&#8217;s not theoretical, that&#8217;s actual.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s other factors that may come into play, not all of which are directly under our control. E.g., the default malloc implementation in glibc was extremely bad up until very recently.</p>
<p><a href="http://highlandsun.com/hyc/malloc/" rel="nofollow">http://highlandsun.com/hyc/malloc/</a></p>
<p>(To be honest, I haven&#8217;t benchmarked a current glibc yet to see if it&#8217;s really fixed. I&#8217;ve pretty much switched to tcmalloc for all my critical installations and haven&#8217;t looked back.)</p>
<p>You can email me if you want to investigate this further.</p>
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		<title>By: csconnell</title>
		<link>http://thoughtblender.info/2008/11/04/comparison-of-directory-ldap-servers/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[csconnell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 02:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://csconnell.wordpress.com/?p=33#comment-7</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fair comments, let me try to address them ...

On running on Windows - I know that quite a bit of work was done on Windows, and when I got it running it ran quite well.  I did choose my words carefully though - I said &quot;SEEMED to have developers that honestly couldn’t have cared less about supporting the Windows environment&quot;.  Configure:make did not work, and it took quite a bit of time to make it work.  What it looked like to me was that someone had done a lot of work to make it run on Windows, but then much of that work was stepped on and I could not compile the code without making a significant number of changes.  The part that led me to believe that no one cared was that when I asked some question I was told that Windows was not supported and I would need to figure it out myself.  I was basically told to go it my own, which I did.  You have to admit, that was not a very positive experience.

Not too mention this particular statement in the FAQs on the site:

&quot;Information useful in building OpenLDAP 2.X-devel (HEAD) on MS Windows NT/2000. The NT/2000 port is experimental. Other Win32 platforms have yet to experimented with. Your mileage may vary! &quot;

This was certainly true at the time for Win2000, which is what were were trying to compile on.

All things considered, I did get it running, and we did choose it because other than that glitch and the surliness of the team supporting we were happy with the product.

On the older version of OpenLDAP compared to the new OpenDS - you have a good point, but I don&#039;t control what is in the CentOS repository.  The rules we set up for this test were that we did not want to build the software, but wanted to get a prepackaged software.  I do think that a new version would have run better, but probably not that significantly, it is only a year old ... it&#039;s not like the software is 5 years old.  The comparison is 1 year old software vs. 6 month old software.

I specifically did not do any tuning at this point - I was quite clear that I was running it out of the box - packaged software configured for my org, but not tweaked in any way.

I can&#039;t explain the slowness of the response times, that was very surprising to me as well.  I am more than happy to work with others on doing some additional work in this area.  I have already spoken with people from OpenDS and Apache about various aspects of these tests, and I am more than happy to talk to folks from OpenLDAP.  I want to choose the best tool for our company, but also provided valuable, accurate information based on MY experience, not on how others think it should work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair comments, let me try to address them &#8230;</p>
<p>On running on Windows &#8211; I know that quite a bit of work was done on Windows, and when I got it running it ran quite well.  I did choose my words carefully though &#8211; I said &#8220;SEEMED to have developers that honestly couldn’t have cared less about supporting the Windows environment&#8221;.  Configure:make did not work, and it took quite a bit of time to make it work.  What it looked like to me was that someone had done a lot of work to make it run on Windows, but then much of that work was stepped on and I could not compile the code without making a significant number of changes.  The part that led me to believe that no one cared was that when I asked some question I was told that Windows was not supported and I would need to figure it out myself.  I was basically told to go it my own, which I did.  You have to admit, that was not a very positive experience.</p>
<p>Not too mention this particular statement in the FAQs on the site:</p>
<p>&#8220;Information useful in building OpenLDAP 2.X-devel (HEAD) on MS Windows NT/2000. The NT/2000 port is experimental. Other Win32 platforms have yet to experimented with. Your mileage may vary! &#8221;</p>
<p>This was certainly true at the time for Win2000, which is what were were trying to compile on.</p>
<p>All things considered, I did get it running, and we did choose it because other than that glitch and the surliness of the team supporting we were happy with the product.</p>
<p>On the older version of OpenLDAP compared to the new OpenDS &#8211; you have a good point, but I don&#8217;t control what is in the CentOS repository.  The rules we set up for this test were that we did not want to build the software, but wanted to get a prepackaged software.  I do think that a new version would have run better, but probably not that significantly, it is only a year old &#8230; it&#8217;s not like the software is 5 years old.  The comparison is 1 year old software vs. 6 month old software.</p>
<p>I specifically did not do any tuning at this point &#8211; I was quite clear that I was running it out of the box &#8211; packaged software configured for my org, but not tweaked in any way.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t explain the slowness of the response times, that was very surprising to me as well.  I am more than happy to work with others on doing some additional work in this area.  I have already spoken with people from OpenDS and Apache about various aspects of these tests, and I am more than happy to talk to folks from OpenLDAP.  I want to choose the best tool for our company, but also provided valuable, accurate information based on MY experience, not on how others think it should work.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard Chu</title>
		<link>http://thoughtblender.info/2008/11/04/comparison-of-directory-ldap-servers/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Howard Chu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://csconnell.wordpress.com/?p=33#comment-6</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hm... Lots of comments, I guess I&#039;ll start with The Past. Frankly your characterization of the situation Windows is, to be blunt, totally wrong. Symas fleshed out the Windows support in 1999-2000 and it has been a fully supported platform ever since then, just &quot;configure; make&quot; like all the rest of our platforms. We don&#039;t spend a lot of time talking about its quirks because for the most part It Just Works. So no, it&#039;s *not* impossible to build on Windows, and no, the Project doesn&#039;t just ignore the Windows platform. We just don&#039;t pay any more attention to it than any other platform.

In fact Symas has spent quite a bit of time and energy into checking how well OpenLDAP performs on Windows.

http://connexitor.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=181

(Quite well, thank you very much.) Of course, that round of testing did reveal some other opportunities for optimization, which were committed to the CVS repository 2 weeks later.

http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-commit/200711/msg00185.html

As for the situation Now, I&#039;m inclined to point out that it&#039;s unfair of you to take a crufty old CentOS release and compare it against an extremely new OpenDS release. If you&#039;re going to use an OpenDS that was written within the past 6 months then you ought to be comparing against an OpenLDAP release from within the past 6 months; Red Hat is well known to be an extremely poor distro in terms of OpenLDAP packaging, perennially out of date, and CentOS doesn&#039;t improve on that. But that&#039;s rather beside the point...

A properly configured OpenLDAP will blow the doors off a properly configured OpenDS and every other directory server on the planet.

Your graphs show average operation response times on the order of 10 seconds, which I&#039;ve never seen even with every possible debug option turned on. There&#039;s something seriously wrong with your setup, and I&#039;d be curious to see what the problem is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm&#8230; Lots of comments, I guess I&#8217;ll start with The Past. Frankly your characterization of the situation Windows is, to be blunt, totally wrong. Symas fleshed out the Windows support in 1999-2000 and it has been a fully supported platform ever since then, just &#8220;configure; make&#8221; like all the rest of our platforms. We don&#8217;t spend a lot of time talking about its quirks because for the most part It Just Works. So no, it&#8217;s *not* impossible to build on Windows, and no, the Project doesn&#8217;t just ignore the Windows platform. We just don&#8217;t pay any more attention to it than any other platform.</p>
<p>In fact Symas has spent quite a bit of time and energy into checking how well OpenLDAP performs on Windows.</p>
<p><a href="http://connexitor.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=181" rel="nofollow">http://connexitor.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=181</a></p>
<p>(Quite well, thank you very much.) Of course, that round of testing did reveal some other opportunities for optimization, which were committed to the CVS repository 2 weeks later.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-commit/200711/msg00185.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-commit/200711/msg00185.html</a></p>
<p>As for the situation Now, I&#8217;m inclined to point out that it&#8217;s unfair of you to take a crufty old CentOS release and compare it against an extremely new OpenDS release. If you&#8217;re going to use an OpenDS that was written within the past 6 months then you ought to be comparing against an OpenLDAP release from within the past 6 months; Red Hat is well known to be an extremely poor distro in terms of OpenLDAP packaging, perennially out of date, and CentOS doesn&#8217;t improve on that. But that&#8217;s rather beside the point&#8230;</p>
<p>A properly configured OpenLDAP will blow the doors off a properly configured OpenDS and every other directory server on the planet.</p>
<p>Your graphs show average operation response times on the order of 10 seconds, which I&#8217;ve never seen even with every possible debug option turned on. There&#8217;s something seriously wrong with your setup, and I&#8217;d be curious to see what the problem is.</p>
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